Before I say anything more, I want to send big hugs and solidarity to victim survivors, and the friends and family of intimate partner homicide victims.
Hi Jess, thanks for all your time and research that went into writing this. It was helpful for me being reminded of one of the (many) excellent parts of your book, which I had lost sight of in the recent weeks of media coverage: shame and it's connection with violence.
I fear that talking about 'violent men' rather than 'men who use violence' may compound shame and drive violent behaviour underground, rather than encouraging men to get support to change their behaviour in a 'shame thwarting' program (such as the one you referred to by Kylie Dowse).
As you said in your previous piece with Michael Salter, continuing the old messaging is not working, so let's try something that does.
I think the work you do is incredible. I read Crikey last week, talking about a carceral approach to prevention- and I remember reading years ago (like prob 20) about a trial in NSW where FV offenders were removed from the family home and security provided, AVO's etc rigorously enforced and apparently, the trial was pretty successful (article in SMH). Since so much poverty and trauma is caused by leaving, I wondered if you were aware of this trial and what your thinking about this is., like where the carceral approach fits in all this. I have thought that maybe this would remove - literally and metaphorically - the king from the castle.
Totally agree. In our desperate efforts to save women and children, the focus has been on enabling her to leave. It can be heartbreaking for her to leave her family home and so destabilising for the children. As we bring the focus squarely on perpetrators, it should be they who suffer the consequences of their abuse.
Thank you for writing this and bringing to the surface the link between shame and violence.
That chapter on shame in See What You Made Me Do absolutely blew my eyes open.
Up until then I’d no idea made me why every disagreement in my marriage was an argument: even me saying the sky was blue was a provocation (my ex-wife said it wasn’t). And then it would escalate and then I would socially distance myself.
Maybe this discussion can provide hope to those who suffer like this. And yes the problem is extremely complex and complicated and the consequences run on for many generations afterwards, but we need to do this for us and especially those who follow us.
Thank you for all of your work to make women and children safe against violence.
Intersectoral collaboration ( Ottawa Charter for Health Promotion) is another approach so that there is a shared understanding and a shared responsibility .
Thank you for succinctly pulling this together. The work you, Michael, and those on the frontline do is critically important. The top-line message for me is that: Shame + Entitlement = Male Violence. Then below that is a swarm of contributing and varied factors at all levels of society. I hope this moment can truly be a catalyst or pivot for how we respond to these crimes.
Thanks for re-centring the issue of shame. A thought-provoking way of approaching it, but it's difficult to imagine that the first experience of shame that a perpetrator experiences occurs in the moment that they become a perpetrator. I would always expect there to be a backstory to that, and if so, then should we also ask how much of the rest of our society and/or other individuals in that person's life also contribute to shaming? Can we view Australia as a society oriented around shaming its members? And what might the consequences of that then be?
This is,so jnteresting. When I worked in East Timor to raise awareness and insane use of the nwly passed DV laws, one female kk e activist said to me - you know of we have our husband prosecuted for DV, and end up in jail, gets given 3 meals a day without having to work forvitx whilst I struggled to feed my for children, who's really being punished here?
Outstanding summary and analysis Jess. Thank goodness you do what you do. We are all better informed for it ... and challenged to think and work harder by it. Thank you.
Have been sharing and discussing this with policy and advocacy colleagues the past few weeks. Just wondering whether your analysis of "shame PLUS entitlement" is the same for First Nations perpetrators or is there an additional layer to consider?
In my experience of working with male perpetrators of violence over +25yrs, I have come to understand the healthy management of Shame is critical to one’s effective evolution and connection. Recognising the evolutionary functions of ubiquitous Shame (i.e., providing private, immediate and visceral warning of pending disconnection whilst also facilitating Self-Reflection through positive-self-disintegration) has changed me. It is instructive also to recognise our Institutions and Systems struggle to manage shame in healthy manners (holding patriarchal values as they do). Embracing uncertainty with courage and compassion is the only way forward 🧡✊🏽
We have an adversarial and punitive justice system. It's a guaranteed way both to reactivate the shame men are so determined to bury, and to weaponise shame into rage. (Let's be clear: this isn't merely "anger"; it's rage.)
Hi Jess, thanks for all your time and research that went into writing this. It was helpful for me being reminded of one of the (many) excellent parts of your book, which I had lost sight of in the recent weeks of media coverage: shame and it's connection with violence.
I fear that talking about 'violent men' rather than 'men who use violence' may compound shame and drive violent behaviour underground, rather than encouraging men to get support to change their behaviour in a 'shame thwarting' program (such as the one you referred to by Kylie Dowse).
As you said in your previous piece with Michael Salter, continuing the old messaging is not working, so let's try something that does.
Here's a link to a video of Kylie discussing her work if anyone else is interested: https://dulwichcentre.com.au/thwarting-shame-feminist-engagement-in-narrative-groupwork-with-men-recruited-to-patriarchal-dominance-in-relationship-by-kylie-dowse/
Another example of Narrative therapy work with men who use violence is here too: https://dulwichcentre.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Talking_With_Men_Who_Have_Used_Violence_in_Intimate_Relationships_An_Interview_with_Tod_Augusta-Scott.pdf
Kind regards,
Nick
I think the work you do is incredible. I read Crikey last week, talking about a carceral approach to prevention- and I remember reading years ago (like prob 20) about a trial in NSW where FV offenders were removed from the family home and security provided, AVO's etc rigorously enforced and apparently, the trial was pretty successful (article in SMH). Since so much poverty and trauma is caused by leaving, I wondered if you were aware of this trial and what your thinking about this is., like where the carceral approach fits in all this. I have thought that maybe this would remove - literally and metaphorically - the king from the castle.
Totally agree. In our desperate efforts to save women and children, the focus has been on enabling her to leave. It can be heartbreaking for her to leave her family home and so destabilising for the children. As we bring the focus squarely on perpetrators, it should be they who suffer the consequences of their abuse.
Thank you for writing this and bringing to the surface the link between shame and violence.
That chapter on shame in See What You Made Me Do absolutely blew my eyes open.
Up until then I’d no idea made me why every disagreement in my marriage was an argument: even me saying the sky was blue was a provocation (my ex-wife said it wasn’t). And then it would escalate and then I would socially distance myself.
Maybe this discussion can provide hope to those who suffer like this. And yes the problem is extremely complex and complicated and the consequences run on for many generations afterwards, but we need to do this for us and especially those who follow us.
Thank you for all of your work to make women and children safe against violence.
Intersectoral collaboration ( Ottawa Charter for Health Promotion) is another approach so that there is a shared understanding and a shared responsibility .
Thank you for succinctly pulling this together. The work you, Michael, and those on the frontline do is critically important. The top-line message for me is that: Shame + Entitlement = Male Violence. Then below that is a swarm of contributing and varied factors at all levels of society. I hope this moment can truly be a catalyst or pivot for how we respond to these crimes.
Thanks for re-centring the issue of shame. A thought-provoking way of approaching it, but it's difficult to imagine that the first experience of shame that a perpetrator experiences occurs in the moment that they become a perpetrator. I would always expect there to be a backstory to that, and if so, then should we also ask how much of the rest of our society and/or other individuals in that person's life also contribute to shaming? Can we view Australia as a society oriented around shaming its members? And what might the consequences of that then be?
Insightful as always Jess. It is clear we need to change our approaches to prevention in particular, if we want to turn the tide.
It is so inspiring to see how you and Mike are “seizing the moment” Jess. I am beginning to feel a real sense of hope.
This is,so jnteresting. When I worked in East Timor to raise awareness and insane use of the nwly passed DV laws, one female kk e activist said to me - you know of we have our husband prosecuted for DV, and end up in jail, gets given 3 meals a day without having to work forvitx whilst I struggled to feed my for children, who's really being punished here?
Thank you for this thoughtful and interrogating read Jess
Outstanding summary and analysis Jess. Thank goodness you do what you do. We are all better informed for it ... and challenged to think and work harder by it. Thank you.
You will like this podcast on the regulation deception. It is up your alley.
https://spotifyanchor-web.app.link/e/8ewVaIBUuJb
This finding has massive implications for DV: ‘Huge’ proportion of mental health conditions in Australia found to be caused by childhood maltreatment
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/may/09/huge-proportion-of-mental-health-conditions-in-australia-found-to-be-caused-by-childhood-maltreatment?CMP=share_btn_url
Have been sharing and discussing this with policy and advocacy colleagues the past few weeks. Just wondering whether your analysis of "shame PLUS entitlement" is the same for First Nations perpetrators or is there an additional layer to consider?
Criminal justice is an area of public policy where the disconnect between evidence based solutions a - https://johnmenadue.com/australian-politicians-lock-more-people-up-for-longer/
A sense of crisis now pervades discussion of what to do about violence against women, made obvious b - https://johnmenadue.com/the-hospital-at-the-bottom-of-the-dv-cliff/
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-07/domestic-violence-prisons-evidence-jailing-is-failing-safety/103809002?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=mail&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web
In my experience of working with male perpetrators of violence over +25yrs, I have come to understand the healthy management of Shame is critical to one’s effective evolution and connection. Recognising the evolutionary functions of ubiquitous Shame (i.e., providing private, immediate and visceral warning of pending disconnection whilst also facilitating Self-Reflection through positive-self-disintegration) has changed me. It is instructive also to recognise our Institutions and Systems struggle to manage shame in healthy manners (holding patriarchal values as they do). Embracing uncertainty with courage and compassion is the only way forward 🧡✊🏽
We have an adversarial and punitive justice system. It's a guaranteed way both to reactivate the shame men are so determined to bury, and to weaponise shame into rage. (Let's be clear: this isn't merely "anger"; it's rage.)